Something I would NEVER want TO SEE

"She isn't hiding anything. As far as the grey pug, I don't remember her denying that she bought her, she just didnt' say anything either way. She did buy her and she is a spayed pet living with her parents."

Nice to see the truth come out. That was around the time that her supposed secret "research" into the genetics of the silver gray was going on. Sorry, but I can't respect the purchase of that puppy from a puppymill.

As far as the numbers she has, I'm not going to get into why I don't believe it unless she wants me to recount the conversation. But I will just say that she called me out of the blue one time back when someone was threatening to report her and she said some things to me that confirm why I believe she is not 100% truthful about the numbers. Again, I don't care how many she has. It's the deception I have a problem with.

You are going to support her actions no matter what, so really this conversation is pointless. However, I don't look at this as giving the trolls what they want. I posted on this because I wanted to, not because I was prodded or prompted by them.

"She isn't hiding anything. As far as the grey pug, I don't remember her denying that she bought her, she just didnt' say anything either way. She did buy her and she is a spayed pet living with her parents."

Nice to see the truth come out. That was around the time that her supposed secret "research" into the genetics of the silver gray was going on. Sorry, but I can't respect the purchase of that puppy from a puppymill.

As far as the numbers she has, I'm not going to get into why I don't believe it unless she wants me to recount the conversation. But I will just say that she called me out of the blue one time back when someone was threatening to report her and she said some things to me that confirm why I believe she is not 100% truthful about the numbers. Again, I don't care how many she has. It's the deception I have a problem with.

You are going to support her actions no matter what, so really this conversation is pointless. However, I don't look at this as giving the trolls what they want. I posted on this because I wanted to, not because I was prodded or prompted by them.

I agree with not buying from a puppy mill breeder, if that is what she is by breeding silver/greys. Her numbers change, so do mine. Currently I have 12, counting 2 spayed pets. But with the puppies, once I decide who will stay, that could change. She is caring for another breeder's bitch and litter. I wouldn't count them, nor would you I bet.

~ You are going to support her actions no matter what,~ This offended me, and I will not let it go. I thought I made myself clear about what I am willing to do and not do for my friends. If you had been repeatedly attacked as she has, I would have stood up for you too. It's cr*p and no one should be subjected to it. I don't know how you took my comment about the trolls as you doing it for them. All I said is she got exactly what she wanted, us arguing over Amber.
Kelle, I have no problem with you, a different person has a problem with you, that is their problem. Unless it directly affects me, or I see you as being cruel, then I don't get involved.
I wouldn't have even posted on this, except as usual it was getting out of hand. By encouraging someone to report her, Could hurt her in the fact of she having multible dogs in California. You have over the limit as well. I am lucky because I live in the country. So my point is people who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones. The troll here also is over her limit as well, and it wouldn't take much to file a complaint on her.

"You have over the limit as well."

Huh? No I don't. We don't have limits here. Except the ones I impose upon myself.

"By encouraging someone to report her, Could hurt her in the fact of she having multible dogs in California."

I never encouraged anyone to report her! Nor would I ever do something like that. She called ME after someone else was doing that to her. It had nothing to do with me. Her call to me was unexpected and out of the blue. Again, I don't care how many she has now or in the future. Your absolutely correct that our numbers change. My issue was not about how many she has or not, it has only been about someone being deceptive in many ways.

That breeder that she got the gray from breeds labradoodles and bulladoodles. As well as bulldogs, pugs, Brindle Pugs, Gray Pugs, and labs. So yes, I think it's pretty safe to assume they aren't breeding for standards and have all the markings of a puppymill IMO.

Again, I have no problems with you Carla. Never have. I think we've beat this dead horse enough and perhaps we can agree to disagree on this particular topic.

bulldogs, and, pugs stacked in cages, and, for all intense purposes, this is their primary living/sleeping arrangement, in a garage with blacked-out windows,,,, presently now, in the "Cali" area...approximately 20+ dogs. ranging in ages from puppies to adult. This is so wrong.

If you have witnessed these conditions, why not report it then? I think areas of California have limits on the number of dogs one can keep, so if you know that they are over the limit and the conditions are not good, then a simple phone call would help them.

Kelle, here is right where you said to report it because of limits on number of dogs. Can't be any clearer than this statement.

You are lucky that there is no limits, for now. I was thinking you were a NY resident for some reason. But the AR people will be pushing for change in your area as well. I agree to let it go, but with the understanding we need to quit sitting in judgement of things we know nothing about.

bulldogs, and, pugs stacked in cages, and, for all intense purposes, this is their primary living/sleeping arrangement, in a garage with blacked-out windows,,,, presently now, in the "Cali" area...approximately 20+ dogs. ranging in ages from puppies to adult. This is so wrong.

If you have witnessed these conditions, why not report it then? I think areas of California have limits on the number of dogs one can keep, so if you know that they are over the limit and the conditions are not good, then a simple phone call would help them.

Kelle, here is right where you said to report it because of limits on number of dogs. Can't be any clearer than this statement.

Yes, but if you read what I put in it's entirety, I meant if they WITNESSED such conditions of too many dogs in not good conditions then yes they should report it for the sake of the dogs. But I have never encouraged anyone just to report someone without merit or reason, this is why I stated if they witnessed these conditions.

I am out showing, and really don't want to feed into this drama, but I need to clarify a few things here. First off, the grey puppy owned by my parents was NOT bought from Jimtown kennels. Did I research the color genes behind the greys? Yes I did, and I did so in order to educate myself about how this gene is passed and if show breeders working with black pugs were at risk for producing this color. I took a risk and put myself up for scrutiny by doing so, but never have I bred a pug-like dog of color, nor do I support those that do, and nor will I ever. I do not and have never supported mixed breeding or breeding with no intent to show what is produced.

As part of that research I stayed in sandy peterson's home and profiled her grey pugs. She was very helpful in my research, providing me with pedigrees for her dogs as well as hair samples. I then took those results and compared them against other populations, which in this case was only available in poor quality. Jimtown kennels was never included in my research.

Kelle, your memory is very distorted and you already owe me an apology on multiple levels. The lies that you are spreading about me and my dogs is uncalled for and unfounded, and never did I call you at home. It was you who called me, after asking for my phone number through email. It was the same then as it is now. You were caught up in the rumors and troll activity, and wanted to hear what I had to say about all of this. I will tell you the same thing as I told you when you called my home: stay out of the rumor mills. There is nothing that will be discovered or accomplished from hashing through the madness, as rumors are just that...rumors...lies....and fiction.

As far as defending myself, I feel no need to. There isn't a person here who will not remember the pictures of my bedroom and the crib that I raise my puppies in. For you, dog breeding requires you to have a "facility." I do not have a facility, I have a home, and all of my animals that I own, including the ones that don't live with me, are clearly listed on my website. Their show careers are also listed, as well as their show results, which does include their wins and losses. I am sad to say that my former show history was lost wen I rebuilt my website, but all show plans and clients are clearly listed.

Edited to add: and Kelle, next time you open up communication between us by begging for pictures of my dogs over the course of multiple threads that were not about my dogs, be sure not to change your mind later to say how you try so desperately to ignore me. It was you who started talking to me, and me who put my big girl panties on and was coordial to you although I knew that you surely had an agenda as you always do in talking to me.

I am out showing, and really don't want to feed into this drama, but I need to clarify a few things here. First off, the grey puppy owned by my parents was NOT bought from Jimtown kennels. Did I research the color genes behind the greys? Yes I did, and I did so in order to educate myself about how this gene is passed and if show breeders working with black pugs were at risk for producing this color. I took a risk and put myself up for scrutiny by doing so, but never have I bred a pug-like dog of color, nor do I support those that do, and nor will I ever. I do not and have never supported mixed breeding or breeding with no intent to show what is produced.

As part of that research I stayed in sandy peterson's home and profiled her grey pugs. She was very helpful in my research, providing me with pedigrees for her dogs as well as hair samples. I then took those results and compared them against other populations, which in this case was only available in poor quality. Jimtown kennels was never included in my research.

Kelle, your memory is very distorted and you already owe me an apology on multiple levels. The lies that you are spreading about me and my dogs is uncalled for and unfounded, and never did I call you at home. It was you who called me, after asking for my phone number through email. It was the same then as it is now. You were caught up in the rumors and troll activity, and wanted to hear what I had to say about all of this. I will tell you the same thing as I told you when you called my home: stay out of the rumor mills. There is nothing that will be discovered or accomplished from hashing through the madness, as rumors are just that...rumors...lies....and fiction.

As far as defending myself, I feel no need to. There isn't a person here who will not remember the pictures of my bedroom and the crib that I raise my puppies in. For you, dog breeding requires you to have a "facility." I do not have a facility, I have a home, and all of my animals that I own, including the ones that don't live with me, are clearly listed on my website. Their show careers are also listed, as well as their show results, which does include their wins and losses. I am sad to say that my former show history was lost wen I rebuilt my website, but all show plans and clients are clearly listed.

Edited to add: and Kelle, next time you open up communication between us by begging for pictures of my dogs over the course of multiple threads that were not about my dogs, be sure not to change your mind later to say how you try so desperately to ignore me. It was you who started talking to me, and me who put my big girl panties on and was coordial to you although I knew that you surely had an agenda as you always do in talking to me.

Why are you guys replying just let the thread die

I never asked for your number. You offered it though back on Aug, 17th 2008. This was way back before I caught on to what you were really like and was concerned as I didn't grasp the magnitude of nastiness that was going on, on the board or why. So I was showing concern for you. Sadly it was terribly misplaced on my part. Regardless if I stand corrected and I ended up calling you or you called me, it doesn't change what I know you told me on the phone.

thanks for emailing me with concerns. we're ok, but go ahead and call me and i will tell you the whole story. the POC has really gone too far this time. 562-***-****.

amber

On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:39 PM, New Meetup Message wrote:

> Kelle sent you this message from Meetup:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Just checking on you, not sure if I missed something. I haven't
> been on the boards much because just so busy and we took some
> vacation time this past week, but I looked today and looks like
> people are concerned about you over on the board so wanted to
> see if all is alright.
>
> You can email me at *********@aol.com
>
> Kelle


You know I'm not even going to waste anymore time with you Amber. IMO you are a pathelogical liar and sadly that truth will never change.

Brandi, no worries. I'm done.

I never asked for your number. You offered it though back on Aug, 17th 2008. This was way back before I caught on to what you were really like and was concerned as I didn't grasp the magnitude of nastiness that was going on, on the board or why. So I was showing concern for you. Sadly it was terribly misplaced on my part. Regardless if I stand corrected and I ended up calling you or you called me, it doesn't change what I know you told me on the phone.

thanks for emailing me with concerns. we're ok, but go ahead and call me and i will tell you the whole story. the POC has really gone too far this time. 562-***-****.

amber

On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:39 PM, New Meetup Message wrote:

> Kelle sent you this message from Meetup:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Just checking on you, not sure if I missed something. I haven't
> been on the boards much because just so busy and we took some
> vacation time this past week, but I looked today and looks like
> people are concerned about you over on the board so wanted to
> see if all is alright.
>
> You can email me at *********@aol.com
>
> Kelle


You know I'm not even going to waste anymore time with you Amber. IMO you are a pathelogical liar and sadly that truth will never change.

Brandi, no worries. I'm done.

Thanks for posting my email. It validates my honesty and that you made the first contact even back then. Probably best you quit now Kelle. You can't even remember calling me without going back through emails and god forbid you misconstrue any more information about me and my family.

You should quit too Amber. This has gone beyond ridiculous and should be taken else where. JMHO